RIU Interview

This is the Rip it Up - State of Sound interview in full (an edited version was published in RIU on Jan 22 2009) ... thanks to Scott McLennan for organizing it and to Rob Lyon for the questions ...

Apart from having the best fish and chip shop in Adelaide what inspired the name "Semaphore" for this release?

Semaphore was partly recorded at the old convent (Dominican Catholic School) on Military Road in Semaphore, a haunted place that definitely had an impact on the mood of the record.

We identify with the place ... the township of "Semaphore" has a strong sense of self but is on the "outskirts" … you have to cross a bridge to get there ... it is a bit of a secret ... it is there to be discovered ... it has been around for a long time ... it doesn’t need to prove itself … if you go there you will probably like it … it’s a better name for an album than Melrose Park …

Semaphore is a form of communication involving flags used in the 1800s for ships and trains … our message is “listen”… we don't use flags though

Was it a challenging process making the album?

We recorded it ourselves … we took our time which was both a blessing and a curse … the biggest challenge was to know when we had finished … we worked hard to capture the best sounds and performances in the various places where this was recorded (haunted convent, factory buildings, bedrooms, boardrooms) … we added lots of things; layers of guitars, keyboards, "found" sounds and string and horn parts (recorded on a laptop on the train to Semaphore) … mixing it was fraught (Damian and Matthew are brothers ... enough said).

Mastering was a revelation. Neville Clarke (the Audreys, Hilltop Hoods) at Disk Edits encouraged us to “sit in” with him on the mastering process. He explained everything and was able to work magic on the sound of the finished record. It was the only real cost in the process and was money very well spent.

How would you describe the Sleepless sound?

It’s so easier to go online and listen (www.sleepless.com.au) … Greg (Grace Emily) likened our music to the Pernice Brothers, Matt Swayne (Brillig) compared it to the Shins and REM ... apparently Rob Snarski (Black Eyed Susans) thinks it quite good (according to Robert Dunstan) … we'd say it’s bittersweet, melodic, melancholy guitar pop.

Was it a hard decision to make the album available as a free and legal download?

Not at all ... unless you are selling thousands of records and making a living from it then the whole "market" approach to being in a band is unworkable (there are basic supply and demand issues) ... we want an audience ... we want people to engage and respond to our music ... "selling" our music inhibits all of those things by making it a cost to the punter ... we don't want it to be an effort to listen to our music ... if you want to make an investment then come and see us play - we want your time and attention not your money.

We distribute our record from our website. The whole package (music, artwork and packaging) can be downloaded for free. The sleeve is “origami”, print it on A4 paper and fold (no cutting or gluing). You manufacture the thing yourself ... a bit like IKEA.

We don’t need to sell our music because we record it ourselves … we use the money from gigs to buy good recording equipment and pay for mastering … we encourage people to go to our website and listen and download the album (music, artwork and packaging) … if they like it then they come to our shows which means pubs are willing to give us gigs … it is a sustainable cycle ... we can pay for a record in just a few shows.

Who's the biggest musical inspiration for the band?

Charles Jenkins. He is a genius. He is from Adelaide. He just keeps at it. Listen to him.
R.E.M. I love how they signed one of the biggest recording deals in history and still have a reputation for independence (and that some of their best music has not sold well).
The Grace Emily Hotel ... it's not just a venue it's an institution ... a very real supporter of local bands and musicians

How important has Triple J "Unearthed" been for Sleepless?

We would love to be “noticed” by Triple J but Unearthed is similar to the “record industry” in that it can only be useful to a limited number of bands. They do a good job but we have had to find a way to exist that doesn’t rely on being selected.

Having said that, we have had a few nice things said about us in reviews on our unearthed site … we always like that.

What was your reaction when you heard your tune played on the radio for the first time?

We are desperate for any media "attention" ... I heard our song "Let me adore you" on 3D Radio the other day (Oscillate Wildly show) ... I rang them up and said thankyou ... We take a hands on approach … Triple J recorded us once and said that Richard Kingsmill would play us on the Ausmusic show … I was glued to the radio for his show but we got “bumped” from the playlist. I rang up and complained. He played us the next week at about midnight. We didn’t get famous. He did say the song was "delightful".

Is it hard for an Adelaide band to get noticed?

Yes ... and no. It is hard for any band to get noticed as there are so many bands in Adelaide, Australia and the World. Coming from Adelaide is not the issue. It helps to have something to say and to say it well.

Getting noticed by other bands (local and interstate) has been important to us. We have made friends by playing gigs with bands. Young Werther, 16 millimeter, the Holy Sea, Brillig, The Pleasure of Books, The Artisans have all been able to help us out in one way or another.

The trick is to make the most of any notice you get. Getting interviewed for State of Sound is a way of getting noticed. To make the most of it we want people to read this and then go to www.sleepless.com.au to listen/download and then come and see us at the Grace on 11th February.

Have you come up with some unusual promotional ideas which are a bit left of centre?

Our whole approach is left of centre but not in a zany way. Ultimately we want people to come to our shows (and recordings) for the music. If people turn up for juggling, nudity or costumes then it is a bit beside the point - they probably won't be listening very well.

We have released our record on "limited edition, specially labelled" USBs ... you can buy them at gigs.

What can punters expect from Sleepless live?

"Punters" are what we do this for. We want an audience to engage with and respond to our music. We appreciate your time and effort in turning up. We have a bunch of people who are supportive of us - they are really important to us. The music is the fundamental thing ... We make an effort ... If you like what you hear on the website and enjoy a beer and live music then you will be pleased.

What are the future plans for the band?

This is our future plans ... we have found a sustainable way to keep doing this ... our plans are to continue it - record, release for free, play for free, record ...

We play the Grace Emily Hotel on 11th of February (first gig since the launch of Semaphore in January) ... go to the website for updates on the Fringe and some dates in Melbourne ... we have started writing the next record ... listen

What does a band want?

Respect

Feedback

Engagement

Investment

... an audience

an audience is people/person who have respect for what you create ... respond to your music (emotionally and intellectually) ... engage with you (in a group or one to one) ... invest in you (time and effort) ...

we can use the market to turn this into enough money to sustain the process ... 

another new idea

If we are going to "work around" the record industry using the internet what could it look like?

I am thinking of a community ... similar to a radio listening community and a magazine subsciber community but based on the internet ...  instead of one to many relationship (dj to demographic, record company to customers, publisher to readers) the relationship would be more web-like ... there are still different roles ... people upload music ... people listen ... BUT people also respond AND people recommend ...

... similar to triple j unearthed ... similar to pandora ... similar to genius ... but different ...

... the aim is to "get" people to listen to music ... the aim is to "filter" the music ... 

... this idea is to work out a simple web-based system that will persuade people to enroll in it ... 

some considerations:

you can only upload your music if you "filter" a number of other people's songs e.g.

in order to upload 1 song you are required to tag/review 5 other songs (other people's songs already uploaded) ... the filtering process is partly predetermined (tagging using tickboxes and dropdowns) and partly open (review) ... filtering is not rating i.e. no stars or scores

... uploaders can filter more than the required 5 songs ... the 5 songs are determined by the system/application i.e. everyone gets filtered ... musicians can moderate the review aspect of any filtering but not the tagging ... tagging is neutral because it is predetermined

... the focus is the songs rather than the band ... you can easily get to bands via links out from the songs (but that is outside this process/application) ... the focus is on listening (like radio) ... the picture of the song "sounds like/inluences" is created by a listener rather than the musician ... 

... the filtering and feedback can be accessed by everyone ... the filtering can be used to produce playlists (podcasts) and recommendations (like genius and pandora) ...  BUT importantly the filtering is used to create communities so that what you are exposed to is within a range of your taste/sensibilities (not just genre but things like recording quality) ... people who want to upload rockabilly will have it listened to by people who do not dislike rockabilly ... if you want to upload industrial polka tunes then you will not be excluded but may find yourself in a community of 1 ...

... "listeners" join the community by filtering 3 songs ... once 3 songs have been filtered then listeners can just listen and download for free (unless the musician blocks downloading) ... statistics/analytics can be used to determine "people who liked this also liked ..." and maybe even charts "50 people listened to this" ... "uploaders" automatically become listeners ...

... this is not a "broadcast" ... it is a narrow cast to an interested community ... when you upload a song you know some people will listen to it and give some feedback ... provided there are enough people in your community ...

... the music is independent ie no record company

we need to determine ...

a simple intuitive way of using these rules to build an interface ...

a workflow diagram of the process ...

the minimum number of people that could sustain this ... it may grow but the idea is to make it work at a grass roots level ... success does not depend on expansion but on sustainablity

the applications and technology required to make it happen ... open source players etc

legal requirements around ip

rip it up

it seems that we may be appearing in Rip it Up sometime soon (Jan 22 unless something goes wrong) ... it has been a long time (if ever ... did we get reviewed in the early days?) ... it looks like we'll get some space in State of Sound ... 

a bit of research shows that bands in this section get about 500 words written about them ... that usually they are promoting a "special" gig (mostly launches of cd) ... that band photos are mostly some guys standing in a pose ... that it is up to the band to have something to say ... a lot of bands say the same thing ...

topics ... where they got the money to record ... who they have played with ... awards/grants/competitions they have won ... how and where they recorded ... lineup changes ... how good the gig will be/was ...

... is there anything else that people want to read? ... i remember reading an interview with Andrew p street (he was being interviewed) and he discussed the size of adelaide compared to manchester and why Adelaide shouldn't be held back by remoteness or size ... it was interesting (naive but valid) ....

some things to consider ...

we want people to go to our website and listen to our music and then come to our gigs or email us and tell us they like it ...

 

... we don't need a record company ... we'd like any attention though ... we'd like the money if it was free of obligation ...

... we need people to come to our shows so that we can pay for the rest of the process ...

... we are grateful to the Grace (greg) for his patronage ... he once gave me a "spiel" he had downloaded from the internet about the relationship between bands and pubs ... it's not a charity ... we need to get punters to the pub ...

... chances are we will not be the NBT ... although it would give me great pleasure to be noticed by Uncut ... I like it that people pay us to play and that the people who see us say nice things ...

... why do we do it?

... it is good for our souls ... firstly ... maybe to live some fraction of a fantasy ... two ... therapy ... 3rd .... because i hear stuff and think "i can do that" ... is 4 reasons

... do we want to be famous?

don't know really ... not as an end in itself ... it would be nice to be recognised and respected ... fame seems like a pain in the arse really ... it's not a choice we have to worry about ... are we ambivalent or realistic? I am not sure that what we do would stand up to global scrutiny ... not much of what is out there does really ... it all gets forgotten so quickly ... i'd like to be famous in adelaide

we are writing for a very local market (primarily four rem fans) ... 

... we are desperate for attention ... we pine for radio airplay and press coverage ... when they play us on community radio we ring them up and thank them (before the song has even finished) ... when we don;t get noticed we feel slighted ... 

... we want people to come to our shows and love what they hear ...

we don't sound like the "latest wave" ... I keep hearing bands that sound like the stokes crossed with something else ... very clever but it probably won't go anywhere ... which is fine (we have worked out a way to not go anywhere) ... it's just that these bands seem so determined to go somewhere ... 

We have seen a lot of bands who were going somewhere ... it used to make me very envious ... mandelbrot set ... big things flying ... the violets ... bliss ... reckoning ... the undecided  ... revolvar ... honeyfix ... the superjesus ... the lizard train ... strum? ...

this is a very subjective list ... bands that got the attention when i was looking - noticed on triple j, supports with big bands, the big day out, record company attention ... 

... it sounds jaded but none of it amounted to much ... maybe the audreys and the HTHoods will change all that ... i think the "system"/industry is changing anyway ... it seems lots of bands Explode onto the local scene ... fully formed and polished ... but we're not competing in their race ...

... we can maintain our output ... out-survive most bands ...  keep on keeping on

la la la

 

Band Practice Schedule Jan 2009 (before Feb 11 Gig)

This gives us 3 practices with Peter and should be comfortable.

• Thursday 15th Jan
• Wednesday 21st Jan
• Wednesday 28th Jan (without Peter)
• Thursday 5th Feb

Perhaps Peter and MLJ can continue lunchtime practices...

Please let ME know if this time schedule needs changing.

Damian

new year near record ... new process

Sleepless is now a self-sufficient “cottage industry” ... more than a hobby/less than a career ... artisans ...

We have found a sustainable way to write, produce, release and promote our music independently

The whole process is funded by gigs ... the punters are underwriting our recordings … by turning up to our gigs they ensure that the pubs continue to book us and pay us … simply by drinking beer they enable us to release our music for free and play gigs for free ... it's like a barter economy based on a good night out ...

By recording it ourselves we were able to take our time and build the songs without worrying about the cost of studio time … sorting out the packaging and distribution has meant that all we have to pay for really is mastering ... we can make a record for $600 ...

Origami packaging may seem like a trivial idea but it means that punters can download the "complete package" themselves - not just the music but the artwork and the sleeve design and "manufacture" it themselves using easily accessible resources i.e. blank cd and A4 paper ... it's like IKEA ... we can reduce the price (to zero) because the customers do the work ... we don;t pay for print runs, burning, shipping ... and we don;t end up with any surplus stock

using the internet for distribution is not new ... we have seen the model where bands use myspace to build a profile and get noticed ... the problem is that this works extremely well for a very few bands (Arctic Monkeys) ...

... i would like to get noticed by as many people as possible but i don't think we need a record company ... magazines and websites that would get people to our website and to gigs would be good ...